Episode 4. MV Lovat with Peter Gibbs

This week on Legacy; Survival Stories

Lifelong underwater escape specialist Peter Gibbs recounts one of his earliest and most harrowing missions: the attempted rescue of the crew of the capsized cargo ship MV Lovat. Get ready to sink into Legacy; Survival Stories.

Hosted by Dan Latremouille

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Transcript

The time is approximately, 0: 0:02

600 on the morning of January 25th, 1975. The place is RNAS Culdrose, a search and rescue helicopter base near Land's End in the western United Kingdom. The weather is cause for concern with forty five knots of wind and increasing every minute. Although the base isn't fully staffed yet, in the predawn hours, a distress call from a stricken vessel and reports of people in the water forced the helicopter crew to launch into dangerous conditions. This is legacy. Survival stories go down, you go down, go down, legacy survival stories. Good day, everybody. My name is Dan Latremouille and welcome to Legacy Survival Stories. Today we've got a great episode for you featuring a long time underwater escape specialist, 20 plus years with survival systems training. And before that, he was a search and rescue diver with Her Majesty's Royal Navy. Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome Peter Gibbs. Welcome to the show, Peter. Thank you, Dan. Good to be here. Very good to have you, sir. So let's quickly go back and say common lineage between you and me and survival systems training and Darmouth. And you first came over to approximately 1992. And I came for a helicopter symposium and I was still in the Royal Navy then. OK, so you were still an active member with the same was a chief petty officer air crewmen. That would have put you at approximately what age? Well, let me say, I would probably be about thirty nine. Thirty nine. Sprightly and young and youthful. Yes. Yes. Relatively speaking, relatively. OK, and prior to that. So you were that was when you first came over here. You did a symposium and then you ended up sort of segueing over here and moved over here permanently. Yes, I and I at the end of the symposium, after I gave my talk on when I was here for I said in a year's time, I'll be looking for a job. And so the the owner of the company actually contacted my boss and wrote a letter to him and said, did he mean that? And the boss phoned me and I said, yeah, I did mean it. And that's how I came. Fantastic. Fantastic. So what was the supplement? What were you speaking about at the symposium? I was talking about how the more naive this approach or the Navy's approach to helicopter underwater escape training. OK, so furthering your or initiating really your legacy, as we're calling Aera an underwater escape specialist, which is fair to say, I've known you. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Well, I would be at 13 years old. I've known you. And you were certainly the the the grandpappy of the underwater escape bit. So I still am. So let's skip ahead then, or I guess in this case, back to the reason you're here today, the story you're here to tell. So if you can, please set the tone for us. Where, when, when and where were you? OK, so I was based at a place called Arani is called Rose in the UK, which is down in the Southwest approaches or right on the end, very close to Land's End. OK, OK. And I'd been a mechanic on a helicopter when I first joined the Navy. All right. So you joined the Navy as a mechanic? No, I joined the Navy as a naval seaman. Aha. OK, so you did the dirty work. Yeah. So in those days, you all joined as Able Seaman or you just joined and then you became an able seaman after you did the course. And then they would stream you into the direction that they thought that you might be best suited for. And they, for some reason, thought that you would be you were shown some mechanical aptitude or. Yes. Apparently, when I did my test, my mechanical aptitude was above average. And so they actually said, well, would you like to be a mechanic? Initially, I thought, well, yes, I would. I'd like to be a mechanic anywhere. And then this person said, well, we've got four slots for helicopters. And, you know, at the age of sort of 17 and half 18, I couldn't even spell the word helicopter, OK, but they were going to train me as a mechanic. So those flying whirlybird things, right? Yeah. And so I went away and learn how to be a mechanic. OK. And while I was doing that, I used to notice these people get in them and fly around and come back and have a cup of tea and sit around talking. Plus, they paid you a little bit more. OK. Not nothing too fantastic, you know, and that's how it all started. I, I volunteered for it. I saw an actual, you know, what they call a defense counsel instruction. They were looking for search and rescue divers. And I thought, well, that sounds like me. And even though I, I had been diving, I'd never been a search and rescue. When you were doing diving prior to this that had been like just on your own? No, it would have been on the place I was based. We had a a ship's diving team. OK. And so I'd already learned to dove, but not to the extent that you would on a search and rescue divers course. And again, being young, I didn't read all the rules and regulations in the instruction. Well. Well, who does not? Well, even now. And so what happened was, I, I went away and I did my search and rescue divers course. And then when I came back from there, I had to learn how to be a navigator and I had to learn all about the back of the aircraft and how to navigate. And it was all done on dead reckoning. So when you say dead reckoning, you're. Talking, I say, pieces of land. Yeah, and, you know, a sea trial in front of you and it it's really like seamanship about 120 miles an hour and a little bit up off the water. Yeah. And further up. OK. And that's how we learn. You know, and and eventually when I stepped out of, you know, being fully qualified, I had all of about 35 flying hours. OK, so I'd been flying for all of 35 hours. OK, so you've been flight you. So that means you've been airborne in an aircraft, in a helicopter, or were they flying at the time? Is that we can see things are better now? In the initial training, it was what was known as a Wessex one helicopter, which is a really old type helicopter. Gotcha. All right. So you got 35 hours in now and then you become a search and rescue diver. Now you are a search and rescue guy. Yes. I'm fully, fully qualified. And what they do then is they send you to a search and rescue unit somewhere. OK, and in those days, there are a lot more. But I was lucky enough to be sent to a search and rescue unit on the base where I lived. Oh, well, that's a happy coincidence for you. And that's amazing for the military to get me back to the place that I came from. Yeah. OK, so now we've set the tone that Peter Gibbs is now become a search and rescue diver with Her Majesty's Royal Navy. And you are based at let me see if I have this right or an hour and as cold rose. Yes. All right. So we've got the background now. So please tell us about this interesting event you've got. So I joined the the outfit, if you want to call it that. And what happens is it's like any new boy, there's all the old guys there. OK, and as soon as the new boy steps in the door, oh, do this, do that. And within about four days of me being there, I'm on watch at the weekend. Is this like sort of standard for the unit, that standard figure? Yeah, the new guy, you're going to do this. And of course, all the old guys want to go on weekend and stuff like that. So I go I say I can't say no. And so there I am. I'm fully qualified. And, you know, they give you a check for it and well, more than one. You know, throughout the four days. And the chief says, you're OK, you're good to go. And there I am. So the guy who won Saturday night off says that, yeah, you're good for Saturday night. Take it off. Yeah, you're good. You'll be alright. You'll be good enough. Yeah. And so that's how it happened. And so Friday night I go home and the wind is getting up. And it's let me sort of just break in. At the time, were you. So if you're on search and rescue, standby. Yeah. Yeah, but you're able to go home. Yeah. Because the unit that I'm operating on is daylight hours only. OK. All right. So if there's an after hours call, that just going to have to wait till people trickle in. Yeah. OK. Yeah. And but people don't trickle in. It's already organized, you know. So it would only be about an hour. OK, and then they'd be off and gone. And the people that would know that call, they know that they're the ones on the. And that's you, all right? Yeah. So anyway, I go home and again, I'm sent home and the wind's getting up and everything. And I already know what winds like. You know, we've been I've been out and about and I've been in the Navy long enough to know that wind is wind, you know. And so I get up in the morning, I think, well, it's my first time ever on my watch. I better go early. All right. So as I'm driving to work in my Volkswagen Beetle horizon, as I'm driving down past the sea. All right. And there's no protection from the wind and the sea. I'm doing like 65 mile an hour and the beetle gets airborne, you know, with the big air scoops on the front. The. And so I realized that it's really windy. I can't see anything. And it's pouring the rain and spray. And then when I get to work, I get there and it's pitch black. So I should ask this. This base are and as cold rose, whereabouts is it? It's on the western end of the U.K. It's about 14 miles away from Land's End. OK. OK. All right. Western UK, 14 miles from land. Thank you. I'm just trying to put this in my mind here, and I like to keep my little map in front of me. So I get a sense of it. So I get to work. And the first thing I realize is, you know, it is really windy and it's you know, I've never seen it like this. And so anyway, I like walking, you know, and I'm walking down the corridor towards the crew room. And Paul, who's who's the navigator or the hoist operator, he comes out and he looks at me and he said, you just get your stuff ready because we're going to go as soon as we can. We're going to go and do a search for a ship. That, we believe, is in difficulty somewhere south west of us and. OK, fine. So I put all my gear in the aircraft and everything like that, which we used to do. We carry our gear with us and the aircraft on air. And the score is for curiosity. When you say pack all your gear into the aircraft for you as the rescue diver, what is that gear look like? Well, really what it means is that we check out all this to dove in search and there's a set of fins in the mask and et cetera, and a life jacket and stuff like that. OK, so we're talking generally swim type stuff here. OK. And Paul, you know, the crewman, he has his own stuff to look after. And then obviously, we only have one pilot because we fly single pilot. And this is in a whirlwind helicopter. All right. And it's a really old helicopter. OK, so you're feeling good? Yes, I'm fine. I'm excited because I've never search for anything. Oh, right. And and again. My pilot or I who his nickname is Swampy. Swampy. Yeah, because his last name is Marsh. OK, so that's why. So it's got nothing to do with his ability to fly? No, no. All right. Actually, a very, you know, experienced and a good pilot, thank heavens. All right. So he comes past and you know, he's a lieutenant in the Navy. And I say, good morning, seeing you guys. Good morning. You know, just get your gear ready. I'm going to start the aircraft up. Just outside the hangar in the lobby of the wind. All right, so I understand that. And he said, I just need you to help push it out. All right. Now, the reason he's pushing it on the Lee side of the hanger or we go in that way is because you can't start them up in the wind when it's over 45 knots. So the wind is high enough to even start. But you're not you're not supposed to engage the rotors. All right. So. Lieutenant Marsh, Swampy, I probably shouldn't use his name, but OK, anyway, so what he does is he gets in. We push it out along with the ground crew and the Sunnis are out and he sees a break in the in the speed of the wind. Of course, he's got an air speed indicator. And as soon as he sees that he starts it or he engages it, gets it all going and then we can climb in. All right. Because that's the dangerous part when it starts. If it's really windy and it's gusty. It can damage the aircraft. And we all get in this and then we taxi out onto a perimeter track. And now we realize we're not supposed to take off in the dark or either. But we've already had a message from the duty officer to say that this ship has sunk and there are people in the water. So sorry. You said it's dark. What time of day are we talking about here? Well, we would normally get to work about an hour early from daylight. All right. So it's in January. So, you know, we're there at sort. So six, five, 30. OK, so we're not talking ridiculous. Two o'clock. No, no, no, no, no. We get there normally an hour before sunrise. So then what happens is, you know, the pilots talking about, you know, we were not supposed to take off in darkness . The tower should be open at least, but it's not. OK, so he says, I don't know what I'll do. I'll talk to the crash truck. The crash truck is the fire engine. Okay. And that's always there when you start up and go, OK, so he talks to the fire engine and the guy in the fire and he says, well, you're not supposed to take off in the dark unless the tower is open. And the pilot says, well, we're going anyway. All right. Because it's a matter of life and death at this at this point. Are you like are you as the diver in in the back into the helicopter, are you feeling that like there's somebody might be out there? Actually, yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah. And and and of course, now it's dawned on us, you know, the aircraft is it. We lift off and go. And what we do is we fly towards the lizard lighthouse because there's a big flashing light and you can see it. All right. So we're going to depart from there. And we know the rough position and we're going to depart and fly towards it. OK. Now, the rough position is about 30 miles southwest of where we are. OK. And that's we're talking 30 miles offshore, like a year ago. And so anyway, what we do is off we go. And, you know, we're flying at about, I would say, a thousand feet on the way out. And then what happens is Paul is doing the navigation. He actually comes up and he says, Gismo, that's my nickname. Can you check my nav? Because I'm a qualified navigator as well. He said we're only doing about 30 knots, Graylin speed, which means the wind is pushing us about 60 knots. So we're flying into wind. So your helicopter supposed to fly at a 90 ish knots? Yes. But you're only making 13 hours. So much wind over the ground. Yeah. So then the pilot, he says, well, probably if we go lower, the wind will, you know, be nicer to us. Well, we went lower and it was so windy or there was turbulence coming off of the waves. And now, as a diver, I can look a really good look at the waves. And I'm thinking, oh, it's pretty rough. It's like Megara. Right now you're looking back at that mechanic job. Yeah. And so anyway, I'm all prepared for it. And then we fly out towards where we're going to go. We get an outdated position. So we have to crosswind a little bit. But nothing that would stop us. And we eventually. We find a lifeboat upside down now as a search and rescue diver, my job would be to jump in, get underneath it and see if there's anybody underneath the life boat. So when you're talking lifeboat, you're talking about a big ship has launched its lifeboat and it's upside down in the water now. Yeah. OK, OK. So and and again, you yourself would know how big these lifeboats on that big. Right? It was upside down. We're just about to dispatch me into the water. They're going have a look and they receive another. There's a life raft with people in it about two or three miles away. So you found a life boat? Yeah. There's upside down. Yeah. And nobody visible, but there's somebody inside. And now you've got word that there's a life raft with people in it alive. Wow. So now who who's who's feeding you the information? OK, so the information is coming in from the Coast Guard. All right. But also involved in this is the actual there are two ships on scene. One is a passenger vessel and the other, I believe, was a cargo vessel. OK, so the commercial merchant marine. Yeah. Yeah. And what they've done is they've they've closed in on the position. OK. And one of them spotted it and gave an update. And that's what we received. So we flew over there. All right. Okay. And of course, now I know I don't need my diving gear on. So I dropped my breathing apparatus and everything. And now it'll be straightforward, hoisting them out of a life raft. And, you know, going from there. So. So your job in this. So with the lifeboat, they would have would they have actually expected you to wear your your dove equipment, put on your breathing apparatus and all the rest of it, and actually swim underwater and go in the damn thing and. Well, it's an open lifeboat in those in those. This one was an open. So at least at least looking inside, it would have been easy. It would have been easier than going actually into a lifeboat like a modern cold one. Enclosed one. OK. All right. I'm going to be lowered down and we're going to pick them up individually and either bring them back to the helicopter or we discussed. What we do is we could put them on the ship. And the passenger ship was a ferry and it was called the St. Patrick, and it was running from Cherbourg to Ireland somewhere. OK. And they had on the front of their or, you know, back from the bounce that a huge, great big awning. And so, you know, like a big a big open area that you could use for the helicopter, kind of. Yeah, well, you wouldn't get a landing on there, but you could use it. And the idea would have been just to lower me down onto the deck anywhere. And we'll go from there because we realized how rough it was now. And we're running into do this. And so we've discussed it quickly, and this is what we're going to do. OK, so as we come over the top of the life raft, there's a guy there like this, you know, with his arms up and so on , Lowood straight down. And then as I get to him like this, what does he do is as I'm about to put the the strobe OK over him, which is the which goes under your arm so you can lift them out of the water. So for the for the people out there, that's basically a big thick strap that goes up sort of up under your arms and then attaches to the bottom of the the cable that comes down from the from the helicopter. And I wear a system is called a double lift, which attaches me to it as well. OK. So I'm just about to do that. And then all of a sudden, this guy just jumps on me and he starts wrestling with me and everything like that. And so, Paul, he knows what he's going to do. He raises me clear of him. Right. So this fella in the raft, as soon as you got close enough, he basically jumped on me. OK. All right. One. And and of course, now I understand why you did it, because he thought he was going to die. And so he grabbed hold of me. And we have a little wrestle and he's holding my helmet here. And and so I push him off and he falls back in the life raft. And then Paul brings me up and says, are you OK? I said, yeah, you know, let's go for somebody else. And and so like that guy got quickly bumped to the back of the line. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it was just a matter of, you know, whoever's there ready. How big was the raft? OK, so this is a little bit of a this came up in the inquiry, right? Because the raft, they say it was a ten person life raft. And I believe it was a five person, pretty small boat. Yeah. And also it had suffered a lot of damage. OK, now I'll explain that as we go. OK, so so because they didn't have a lifeboat at all trying to get in the life raft. OK, and there were 12 people trying to get in the life raft and they realized once they were all in it, that they would have to get out. Some of them enough to get out and stay out on the outside. And they took it in turns its over again for the for the for the folks at home. When you consider a life raft, if you take say, for example, like, say, a 10 person life raft, those are designed so that when 10 people are in it, those 10 people are essentially shoulder to shoulder with virtually no extra space at all. So when you start talking about the possibility of there being maybe 12 people and something closer to a five person life raft, you're talking about a starting camp. Well, yeah, OK. And the the one of the reasons that life was really uncomfortable for them in the life raft is the lower chamber had perished. OK, OK, so so all right, so the normal life raft has got a a lower tube and an upper tube and the lower one has got busted, popped and it got rafter all OK. Oh, and oh, you understand what that means? The plot thickens. Yeah. OK, so please continue. Rafter is caused by no service in the life rafts properly. OK. And it's caused by leaving it in. If you want to call it inclement weather, it gets wet and then it stays there for the prolonged maintenance period, which in those days was probably five years before it got serviced. So once every five years. And what happens is it rots. And then you inflated and one chamber only then goes bang and it will go down or it won't inflate or something like that. Something bad will happen. OK, so and I had no clue any of this had been going on because I'm more concerned about trying to rescue the guys. So I as we're running into for the second time or I there's a guy, another guy, OK, he's ready. I can see this guy. He knows what to do. He's got his hands up in the air. And I come along and I just put the strap over him like that, pull the back it, make it tight on him like that. I give on my belt to give the thumbs up. I'm ready to go. And all of a sudden, I'm pulled out of the roof with him. And I have no idea what's going on. I'm underwater and I think only crap. Maybe the helicopters stitch on. I had time to think that. And I can see this guy in front of me. He's with me. So he's he's he's in the strop and he's basically attached to you. And you're going underwater and I'm underwater. Good heavens. And so I look like this. And I can see him. You know, I've got my eyes open and I can see him and I think I better let him go or I saw disconnect him quickly. And when I disconnect, I realized that I've got all the hoist cable with me. And so what's happened is the helicopter NAV has been hoisting me. And he saw the the hoist cable. He thought it was wrapped around me. And he knew if the tension came on, it would cut through you or he'd cut my arm off. And what he did was he jettisoned the hoist cable. But because we were moving sideways. Right. That's how it ranked us underwater. And all I did was I just released it underwater, threw it away, and I surfaced. I couldn't see the helicopter. I looked all around and I thought, oh, my God, it's ditched. And so I thought, well, what do I do? And then you start thinking about one more person in that little tiny raft. Well, yeah, but I mean, as I went up on the wave, I saw the guy that was with me in the trough of the wave and I've got my fins on and everything. So I swim down to him and I grab him and say, look, it's going to be all right. I'll get you back to the life raft. OK, so now I spend a few minutes swimming with him. And what was the state of this guy? Was he. Yeah, he's okay. He was okay. You know that one of the things that you know, the lucky, if I can call it luck, is the raft itself and got a sea anchor deployed or anything like that. So it wasn't being held anywhere. And so it would spin on the waves and it would spin towards the bottom of the troughs. So as as I'm pulling him down the side of the wave or I swim in for the life, of course I can see it now. It would disappear. Then it would come back and I would see it was going to be in the next trough. I managed to get him back to the raft and get him in there, and I got him in. And then what happens is, of course, now I can hear a helicopter and I can feel it hovering above me. And the crew in the helicopter. Paul, the navigator is giving you the. You OK? Okay. All right. Have you got everything with you or is any bits missing? That sort of thing. And I'm looking at him and I know we've got a life raft in the actual helicopter. And I'm trying to indicate to him, you know, pass me the life raft and make five and I'm going like this. And he looks at me and he goes like that. And I know so sorry for for those that can't see, he asks if they're made like a drinking motion. Yeah. And I know that that's an indicator that they're low on fuel. OK. All right. So now, because you're not having a bad enough day. No. And you know, so what what happens next is he indicates and he says we're going to. And I get the thumbs up, yeah, I've got nothing else to you know, I can't say no, don't go ahead and offer your your your your bargaining power is very low at that point. And I already know that they'd be short on fuel. All right. And again, off they go. And of course, they're down win so they can go really fast. And what you try and do, if you're really sure and you think you might have to, you try for the nearest point of land, which is what they would do. And so off they go. And so I think, well, what do I do now? A tie myself to the life raft. And I think, you know, trying to get back to the original piece of junk life raft. Yes. I don't know. It's a piece of junk because I haven't got any air. OK, so tell it to the outside and I can see the people inside. The ones that are alive are having real problems, you know, staying in there. So I want to focus on the ominous tone of that sentence. You get in that raft and the ones that are alive, you can see. So by saying that, you're indicating that not everyone is alive. Not everyone is alive. They're so far alive. And to floating around in the bottom line and in the ensuing light to be rescued. OK, at the end of the day, there's only me and two guys alive. All right. So there were already some perished. The guys that had been on the outside of the raft. I know. Now, what happened is they got cold. They let go, which is. And then floated off, floated off or whatever. So I decided it'd be better for me to get in the life raft. And so I climb in the life raft. And and again, the the ships close aren't really trying to protect us. Take it in turns. So there when you say protect you, you mean like try and sort of get upwind and give you a little bit of shelter. Yeah. Yeah. And so the one that could maneuver the the easiest. So I think I'm not the ship's captain, but the the ferry with passenger ferry. That one came in really close to us and it would pass us. And one of the survivors said to me, you know, we got a line from that ferry, but we couldn't hold onto it because it was too cold. We were too cold. And and so I'd already thought to myself, well, I know what I'm going to do. At the end of the day, if that ferry comes close to us, I could swim and climb up the scrambler on the side. All right. So I wasn't too put out. I did think to myself, and it's amazing what you do think. I thought like this, I'm going to be like home for dinner when I signed it. And that was one of the things behind the dinner. Could somebody please send a text or a telegraph to. Yeah. To Homestead and let them know I'm going to be a few minutes late. I'm now concentrating on trying to keep them alive. And literally what's happening, the raft is spinning halfway up the the the waves. And then, you know, in a really rough sea, the top parts of the waves break off and roll down. That's coming through the raft and it's trying to wash everybody out. And so I'm just in the middle. I'm grabbing a hold of everybody. Right. So you're in there and you've got how many live souls now? I think there's four alive and two dead. I don't have time to check for pulses and things like that. Oh, probably your hands full with the four liberals that are really taking off. Yeah. The two guys that survived, they had lots of clothing on, but the rest of them were, you know, in their PJs. Right. When you say lots of clothing, we're talking normal ish clothing, like winter jackets, like, OK, so when the ship started to capsize because the cargo moved, all right. The captain said, look, Lance, we're going to have to abandon. And so two of them thought, well, that'll be cold. That water is middle of January. And what happened is they went down the cabins, they put in all their warm clothing, and they put their oil skins over the top and then they put the lifejackets on. The thing that was really good about all you know, I mean, I didn't really understand this. The the experts said that because they put their own skins on when the wind and the waves were coming through, it wasn't penetrating their clothing or it like it was the guys that were in their PJs pajamas with a life jacket on. Everything's penetrating, you know, the wind and the waves and, you know, just sucking the energy right out of them. Yeah. And that's one way, you know, it does. And that eventually. The then, like I said, there were four alive in there. OK, and the two that died were really because they were freezing cold. They they weren't dressed properly properly. And, you know, on try and hold them in all the time. And, you know, I'm grasping them. And then one of them actually died in my arms. And I have to ask the other guys. You mind if I put them down? And they said, well, why do you want to put him down? I said, well, he's not with us anymore. I don't want to tell them that he's dead. You know, want to say those words. But unfortunately, that's what happened. And so this guy you're wrestling basically with people you latched on to them, trying to keep trying to keep my head out of the water, face over the water in a raft. And this guy expires running, you know, and and so, you know, I asked the guys and they say, well, yeah, you know, and so I tie him on and put him down. And then I concentrate on the two that are actually conscious and still talking, you know, which are the two that have the layers of clothing oilskin . Yeah. And so I stay like that. And, you know, like I've been saying, the ships were passing us really close to protect us from the wind. By the way, I want to go, if you don't mind, I want to go back a second. What are you wearing when you say you like you get your gear on? Are you went in like a wetsuit or. Yeah, I mean, a thick, wet suit. I've got like a seven mil or something. Seven mil with a, you know, a farmer, John, but you know, a jacket and everything, OK? Like one of those what sounds like a like a an under layer that sort of legs and body and then an overlay on its body in terms of the legs. And I've got long johns on. OK, and I have a neoprene vest and then I've got a big thick lifejacket, not life jacket, but a big thick neoprene jacket that goes over me. So how are you faring in the cold at this point? I feel no pain or I'm busy, so I'm I'm working hard or I and I didn't feel cold once. Really? Yeah, I did. And what kind of water temperature ease of January in that part of the world? Probably two days plus eight. I think maybe seven. And for anybody who doesn't think that's cold, just go ahead and poor tap water from your from your ear, from your tap, put it in the fridge for four hours and then take it out and stick your hand in that. Leave it there for a minute or two and they'll give you a sense of just how cold that is. So, you know, I didn't feel the cold and of course, on, you know, relatively used to it so that, you know, it was the state of things in the life raft. And so I thought, well, if the ship comes close enough to me that if they throw a line to me, I'll be able to tie on. And then tie on to the life raft. Yeah, to the life raft, and then they'd probably be able to pull a life raft of water where, you know, it would go to the side of the ship. All right. But. They're getting closer and closer and they're the crew are dropping. It looked like, in fact, it probably cooking oil. All right. Because what they're trying to do is years ago, they said if you could tip oil, you know, some form of oil on the tops of the sea or it will come in or make it calmer. And they were doing all this and that didn't work at all. I was going to say we're was just going to ask because the for a little bit of Marine lore for everybody back home. Old school lifeboats actually had an oil spigot. Yeah. Yeah. Up forward. So that as you're bashing through the waves, you could you could squirt this oil out in the water in front of you. The theory being that it would somehow make the waves not so bad. I got to tell you, it's a it's a plot with holes. I have a hard time imagining how it would work. But but I can tell your mother nature doesn't do that. OK, so we're in the life raft. And I know that there'll be helicopters coming to pick us up. And so what happens is the the ship, the SS and Patrick is getting closer and closer. And so if she like making sort of circles around you and trying to pass this pilot. Yeah. And I know that they're probably thinking about coming really close to us. And so I'm not too concerned. All right. But as one of these particular times, they come really close, like probably less than 10 meters away from us. Right. Which probably look awfully big outside the hatch of that like that. But the the the most scary thing for me and was the guys in the life raft are not thinking about anything like this, but as they come really close to us, they hit a huge wave and the boat goes under the waves like that. And what pops out of the back as we're disappearing down the side of the ship, the propellers, propellers. And now I can see this big bronze thing shiny and polished. Yeah. And I'm thinking if we go in there, it's game over. All right. I'd be jumping out. But that was the most frightening thing, you know, and that was an oh my god moment. I bet it was. Yeah. You're not supposed to say props for ships that size of water. And and the the captain of that ship in in the inquiry said, you know, he said it was getting closer and closer. And he said and then I realized, you know, one of the passes that when the balance went down, the props came out and he said, so I, you know, heave to and when kept away from it, you know, all they did then was just keep us in the, you know, protected from the wind as much as they could. So let's sort of timeline this now. So you took off at first thing in the morning. So just just like basically by now it's still dark when it was still dark when we took off. OK, so and then you take off, you arrive. What's your flight time to get there? It it would be almost like 45, 50 minutes. OK, so and then there's a little bit of flying around and then there's a little bit of raising, lowering. And then, you know, you're disconnected. You're in the water with them. Yeah. And what kind of timeline do you think you're out here now with them? By the time those those those poor souls inside? When they when they left, I don't really know. But the I would say that we were probably in the, you know, the rescue mode for at least two hours after the event. You know, the helicopter I was in disappeared. I knew that there would be other helicopters coming to, you know, pick us up and things like that. And again, it would just be that after most of the crews and get the aircraft ready and probably I think it was in two hours, something like that, two and a bit I could see in the horizon two little black dots. And I knew what they were because the weather was starting to abate. If you want to call it that. And these things were skimming across the tops. But they even they said when they got there, they didn't appreciate the size of the waves. And the captain of the Canadian ship that was involved in the inquiry, he said, you know, he said there were 19 August going across my desk. And he said, I'd say the wave height was between 45 to 60 feet. So big waves. You know, I didn't feel particularly afraid of the waves because I'm just going up and down on the water. It's just go riding up and down a hill for you. Yeah. And for the guys in the life raft, it was an absolute nightmare because the life raft wasn't doing what it was supposed to do , you know? Yeah. And so then so how did how do they do the helicopters come rescue or do they launch something from the ferry or. No, no, I don't think you could have launched anything from, you know, anything wrong except maybe a bit of oil, apparently. Yeah. And the the interesting thing was, though, the the helicopters that came seeking helicopters and of course, they have a better system. So at that point, would they have been the like the newer generation compared to the flown out in now? Oh, yeah, far, far, far new. And as much as people around especially cannot make fun of seeking, let's call a spade a spade. Those things were inactive. Those things were active for 50 years. Yeah. Yeah. Which I mean, who's got a car that lasts longer? Exactly. All right. And again, you know, on the Canadian side of things. Yes. The guys that look after them or used to look after them, they're looked after. Right. You know, aren't flying one of them any day, you know, and the ones that picked us up were antisubmarine helicopters. So they have a lot of equipment inside, but they're still capable of coming into the Hovan, picking this up. And that's what they did. So they and another somebody like you. A search and rescue diver lowers down. Did it take you first or, you know, the you know, the helicopter came into the hover over the top of us. And I have the guys that are alive and I know they're up first, OK? And they do it from the life raft. OK, so the. So straight out of the raft. Straight out the raft. All right. Then the the ones in there that were dead were lifted up. And then at the end of the day, it's me, I and then I went to Georgo and one helicopter. Yes. Yeah, we did. Yeah. And the interesting thing, though, during the the rescue phase, they're hoisting phase the the lifeboat that was on its way from Penzance, which would be like 30 miles away. So when you say lifeboat now, now you're talking like a land borne rescue, small ship type thing. The Coast Guard cutter type is small. Look at the you know, in the UK where the the royal national lifeboat, you guys you guys are funny over there. You call your lifeboats that launched from ships to save your life boats and your love and your ships that launch from the to come rescue you or lifeboats to to you. And and again, they arrived on the scene. And so they that's always good to see them, because those the majority of the guys, they're all volunteers, but they're normally, you know, fishermen, old old guys that have been fishing for years, they know the sea. And one of those to pick you up is great news for anybody who's in the water. And and and so they they were just getting on scene, all right. By the time. But we'd already, you know, picked up most of the people and off we go. You know, so they you get on the helicopter, they fly back to your base and put you in the hospitals and. No, no, no. Not nothing this fancy is that they flew us to a hospital. Okay. And then the two live ones out and the dead. OK. They get, you know, put out as well. And then what we did is we turned around and went straight back out there. And then because you hadn't had a long enough day, you know. No. Getting the most for their money, you know, you're on salary, son. Get back together. And so then what happened is they basically what we did is we and we identified and marked where everybody was, because when we went back onto the search pattern or where the life raft was. All right, the the people literally, you could fly along the downwind side and and they were spaced intervals and unfortunately, none of those survived. Right. So what was the ship? Where did all these. OK, I'll say poor people like I mean, you've got a bunch of sailors that end up in the water. What was the ship you said something about a cargo vessel that capsized? Yeah. OK, so the name of the vessel is I'm sorry, not HMS M.v. Love it. OK. And the it is coming out of Cardiff. And it was carrying coal dust and it was, you know, a twelve hundred ton cargo vessel. And, you know, off they go in. And I'm only telling you from the court of inquiry, the coal dust they believe was loaded incorrectly or and it had too much moisture in it. And so when they they were they were trying to make the tide. You know, so what they do is they they're loading it quickly. And what they've done is they've made it in a pyramid rather than rather flattening all out. And and it's got too much moisture in it. And then as it goes down from Wales and he has to turn left into the English Channel or I and it would go in across see the cargo moved shifted to the port side. I think it was. Yeah. And then what happened is they couldn't Royte, they couldn't get it, fix it. And then eventually I believe the engine intakes sucked in water that shuts the engines down. So now you're just drifting. So you know what's going to happen? It's going to drift, you know, beam onto the wind in the sea. Every time the captain, you know, he did the right thing. He got Moonen ready to go, but they couldn't launch the lifeboat because it was on the low side, on the low side. And then it got washed off. And in those days, only the one lifeboat required. Yep. Wow. And you just had to have a backup life raft, which has to. Which they used. Yeah, but apparently, possibly. Allegedly, maybe had not maintained according to the way it should. One of the good things came out, though, is the on the big court of inquiry. It involved the, you know, the British government. And it was, you know, saying this, you know, we need to have all our sailors trained properly. And what it did was it increased the training and improve the maintenance of all the equipment. And so out of that incident, you know, a lot of good came. They changed the rules and regulations. The government changed it. This was you know, you can read all the documents in, you know, the houses of parliament and things like that. And it's all in the. Yeah. No. Well, that's that's fantastic. And it is. Well, the incentives are fantastic. But as a species, as a civilization to move onward and forward, we have to try and not repeat the mistakes we made before. So it's it's it is satisfactory, I suppose is the best word that although people had to die, at least the regulations were changed so that those particular set of circumstances shouldn't happen again. Because, I mean I mean, we can look right now and the way lifeboats and arrangements are right now exceed that they're better than they were back then. And the standards for life rafts, I mean, off the top of my head, I know that here in Canada, the life rafts have to be replaced entirely every three years, to be inspected every year by a third party. So you have to bring in, you know, your your experts from wherever to to look at the rafts and hopefully not end up with a with a with a dud raft. Wow. That's amazing. You know, yourself, you know, having attended the inquest or all the evidence is there. So the life raft was there and everything. And the um, say the judge really what I think he's going to Jonge, but he's the person at the front of the room anyway. He looks at everything as well. And there was a container and he actually said, what is this container? And it's a round cylindrical tube or. And he said, well, we only saw cuts on it. And it's me, while I'm in the life raft, I'm trying to hold onto the people, I've got my dove in life and I'm trying to soar the end of because you can't undo it. It was Covid. Were you talking the like the survivor lives with it, with the equipment that comes in a life raft. Yeah. Yeah. You couldn't get it into it. So they they they couldn't get it open or I and I saw it in the bottom of the raft and I fell on open. I'll get the flares out and stuff like that when I try. It's got like a wax coating all over it. OK, in the end, you know what? So is this is it supposed to sort of screw off at one end? Well, yeah, but you couldn't it was thorough. It was wax. And also what they'd done at the end that you could open. Right. You guys call it duct tape. I call it masking tape or there's like there's like four full rows of that round it. So it's really tightly packed. So everything in there is a completely watertight, which is wonderful, except you can't get it. And you know, the two minutes of you being in cold water, you can't use your fingers properly. All right. And they said, what? What are all these soap marks? And it's me with my diving knife trying to saw the end of trying and get at it. But I had to stop doing it because the danger of me stabbing somebody. And so I thought, well, I'll just hold on to him and look after, you know. Yeah. And that's how it all transpired. Wow. So for for folks at home, the way life raft equipment is typically packed now, it's not in plastic hard shells. And with the life rafts are there and fiberglass shells usually. But the life raft kits that are inside, which would include your food and your food supplies, water supplies, flares, signaling devices, that sort of thing. They're usually in a sort of a dry bag type arrangement, which if you needed to, I suppose you could get open with a knife. Yeah, hopefully you just, you know, rip open one end in a way and go, wow, that's amazing. And and so that changed the the Department of Transports approach to search and rescue. And, you know, the British government said it's absolute tragedy to lose that amount of people at sea and especially with other vessels there. Yeah. Right. Like in what? In what? At least in concept. Should have been a survivable event. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. So but again, I you know, the the waves size, you're you're at the mercy of Mother Nature. Now, if you could do it all again, what would you do differently on that day? I might vent a little bit bigger breakfast, OK? To be honest, because normally you're getting a bit peckish by the end of all that where you go to work and and, you know, you have some form of food. All right. But I don't think I don't even know what type of cereal at home, you know. You know, and of course, you know, when you eat a 14 mile drive, so I take, you know, maybe a marmalade sandwich or something like that with me. And on the way. You're a heathen. You're a heat. And give up. Who eats marmalade sandwiches? Well, the Brits. And so that was the you know, that's what I had. But, you know, the I often, you know, I talk to my wife now and I laugh about this. When we arrive back at the station, the airbase or the seeking helicopters or about parked normally about a mile or a good mile away from where my search and rescue squad room was. OK, so the the interesting thing there was they they landed and they taxied to where they are going to shut down. And I said, well, can you drop me off? And they said, no, we can't go in here. And so I get out and I've just been through all this and I've got my fins and the diving gear, and now you've got to go for it. And now I start walking across an airfield that's closed or I and I'm walking along. I have no clue. You know, I'm just going to go back to work on programs that go back to work. All right. And I'm walking along and I'm thinking I'll get back and I'll have a cup of tea. And, you know, and then I see a, you know, little Royal Navy mini. And I'd never seen one of these before. And he's driving towards me and I'm walking directly across the main runway. And it screamed up to me. And this voice goes. Are you the diver that just got out of that, you know, search and rescue? Yeah. Yes, yes. Yes, sir, I am. All right. Because it's a sir. OK, and it's a lieutenant commander. And he's the public relations officer. Oh. All right. So I said, can you are you going back to the search and rescue outfit? And you can you drop me off, sir? You guys know you're coming with me. And so I then go. You're still you're still in your shoes. I'm just, you know. And then there's all these, you know, photographers and you know what's going on and all this, you know, and I'm saying, well, I can't really. Stop and talk. I got to go back on the I'm the duty diver and the lieutenant, come on and don't worry about that, Gibbs. I've got that whole under control, you know, like this. And that's how it was. And after they interviewed me and so do they go right to interviews and everything, they didn't give you sort of a brief on what to say and what not to say. I was just like, we have none of that. You know, nowadays you would be taking the side. Do you want a therapist or goodness me, you think you have a full you have a legal team, you know, telling you what you can talk about, what you can't talk about. And it was all done. And, you know, and eventually I just, you know, got in, you know, the the mini and we drove back and he dropped me off. And I walk into the crew room and there's everybody sat there, you know, they're all you know, they've all come to work. You know, they've already had a nap and a dinner and everything while they're waiting for you. And I can tell you the next day I go flying in a helicopter as if nothing's happened. You know, and that's the beauty of it is, though. And I mean, you know, if you have proud moments in your life, I don't know about a month later, I get like a almost like a message from the queen, from the queen or from her majesty, her majesty. You know, it's not from the queen, but she's the one who said yes. Right. And she awarded me the queen's gallantry medal. All right. So I then have to go and meet the queen, you know, which is great. Then you have to go meet the queen. It was hard to take time out of your day for that. I'm sure she won't come to me at. And so and so I get a trip to the palace. Where I am, you know, probably one of the lowest ranks there. All right, but the the amazing thing or the if you want to call the guys that look after the big crowds who are getting medals and stuff like that, they're all Commodore's commanders. You know that there be a couple of Rear Admiral Trent Lott, a lot of stripes and stuff. Yeah. Oh, yeah. And of course, I'm I'm the man, you know, I'm the one getting the medal. And so it was great. You know, they come up to me in a room and Gibbs, you know. Well done. It's great for the Navy. You know, this sort of thing. Yeah, I know, sir. Thank you, sir. Yes, sir. Thank you, sir. I'll take you to your seat now. And they put you there and say this is what you're going to say to the queen when she speaks to you. Now, now the legal team comes in and gives you well, you know, they just, you know, be polite and use your common sense, you know. You know, so don't don't don't flirt. No, no, no, no. I would I contact only. Yeah, but. And so that was the you know, what came out of that for me? Well, you know what? That's pretty amazing. It's not everybody that meets the queen and not everybody that meets the queen, having done something that I think we can go ahead and call it heroic. Well, yeah. Thank you very much. And, you know, thank you very much. And and again, like I say, I've had a really unusual life. You know, because there's been many incidents, you know, like this or I will divulge into that. I think that Peter Gibbs is going to make more than one appearance on our show here. Well, that would be nice. I would love to have you. OK, so that's probably a good spot to wrap this one up. Well, thank Peter Gibbs very much for that incredibly entertaining, harrowing and amazing story of survival. And and I'll say fortitude, because that took some staying power to hang in there. And that sounds like some extremely difficult circumstances. And then just grind your way back to work when you get back. Yeah, that's how it is. That's the job. So thanks very much, Peter. And we'll look forward to having you get on the show. And thanks very much. That's a wrap. Thank you, Dan. That was great. Thank you. Bye-Bye. If you've got an interesting story or think you know someone who'd make a great guest on the show, please reach out to us at Legacy Survival Stories. All one word at Gmail ICOM. 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